Thomas Snow is the Executive Director for Tennessee Prison Outreach Ministry (TPOM). TPOM works with the incarcerated, teaching faith-based life skill programs in the prisons, provides mentors, and has a reentry center for anyone leaving incarceration. They are a state-licensed mental health outpatient facility, providing therapy to residents, those in the community, and incarcerated women at the Davidson County Jail at no cost.
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Thomas Snow is the Executive Director for Tennessee Prison Outreach Ministry (TPOM). TPOM works with the incarcerated, teaching faith-based life skill programs in the prisons, provides mentors, and has a reentry center for anyone leaving incarceration. They are a state-licensed mental health outpatient facility, providing therapy to residents, those in the community, and incarcerated women at the Davidson County Jail at no cost.
Our Patreon Page:
Socials
Website
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Hello and welcome to the America unmuted podcast. My name is Silas Deane, founder of the resource project connecting incarcerated individuals to job opportunities and resources across the country. Every other week with my co host, Bernard selendy, the former jailer of some of the largest jails in the country, we'll guide you through interviews from those involved with affected by or passionate about noticing the wrong and doing something about it. Thanks for spending time with us today. So let's jump into this. America America.
Unknown Speaker 0:36
There and
Unknown Speaker 0:46
Hello, everybody, this is the America unmuted Podcast, the podcast where we speak to those involved with affected by or passionate about noticing the wrong and who are doing something about it. I'm your host Silas Deane, and I'm joined today with Bernard selendy. And for today's episode, we have Thomas snow. Thomas was the director, or is the director for the Tennessee prison outreach ministry and reentry centers in Tennessee. And T palm works with those incarcerated teaching faith based life skills and programs in prison, providing mentorships case management services job placement, and a reentry center for anyone leaving incarceration. They're also a state licensed mental health outpatient facility providing therapy to their residents, those in the community and incarcerated women in Nashville at no cost. Thomas, how're you doing today? I'm doing great. It's good to join you Silas and Bernard, I appreciate the invitation to be a part of this. We're happy you're here and excited to hear more. And Bernard How are you doing? Great morning.
Unknown Speaker 1:50
Yeah. And so Thomas, I guess we'll start a little bit about hearing more about your story. What's your background? Introduction to the criminal justice industry? And what got you passionate about this to start? Sure. So my, you know, when I think about my plan, and being you know, here at T Pom, it was never a part of any kind of grand scheme that I played some grand plan to be involved as ministry I've never thought about prison ministry had, you know, never been in prison myself. And I moved here from Texas, to Tennessee to go to college, ended up working at a church I was the pastor of a church in East Nashville for a number of years, serving in that capacity and thought I would do that for all my life. So we had a gentleman that came to our church from another congregation. And he was involved in prison ministry. And he was going into the Charles bass facility, which is now shuttered, and he would have worship services. And he said to me, he said, Thomas, he said, Why don't you go with me into a prison, and help conduct the service? And I thought, well, I've never done that before. And I said, but I got my degree, I've been to seminary. And I've said, Surely I go at once. And so I went in with them that Sunday, and they had a chapel there that would see about 100 men, and they called the men out for service, I took up every seat that was there, they were standing in the back. Many of them had their Bibles, when I got up to deliver the message, they started saying Amen, and praise the Lord. And I got really excited because I thought I never get this reaction where I preach that every Sunday. And when I got finished with my message, the guys just lined up. And you know, they just were there and they wanted to shake my hand, and they want to thank me for coming. You know, and I thought, I've been preaching for years. And I said, When I finished my mess, that I have to go out and take people in the parking lot to shake their hand, because I can't wait to get out the door. And so that was just where I got my star. And I began to see
Unknown Speaker 3:57
that this was something that was really meaningful. And so we went from that to going into the depths of county jail, doing some services there as well. Then we had women that we were working with, and they would get out and they would come to see us. And they would say, you know, Hi, I'm out of jail. And we'd say great, you know, God bless you, and we love you. And really had nothing to do to help them once they were released and began to see that that was a part of the huge need that they weren't that they face when they came out of the corporation. And so I was asked to join a ministry called Tennessee was an outreach ministry at that time, it was a church based ministry, and they were going in and doing mainly, you know, worship services and Bible classes. And so I was asked to join that. And I did that. And then 2013 took that ministry over it. We became a nonprofit. And we really wanted to focus on moving toward reentry.
Unknown Speaker 4:58
And to be there for
Unknown Speaker 5:00
People when they came out the doors because that is the most challenging time for people. And that really led to where T POM is tonight.
Unknown Speaker 5:10
Yeah, awesome. Could you so so do you primarily work with women? And that first facility? Was that primarily a women's facility? Or was that kind of just everybody at that time? Well, initially, we were doing working just with the women. That's where, you know, we really with that church, were involved in there working with them on Sundays, and then helping them when they came out. And so when I joined the ministry, they were completely a behind the bars ministry, they were going in, in several of the state prisons DRC, the Deborah Johnson rehabilitation center, the women's prison Riverbend, maximum security prison as well DeBerry special needs. So they were doing a lot of that, but they really were not doing anything related to reentry. And so that was, you know, we started with the women, but then we started working with the men as well. And then we had an opportunity
Unknown Speaker 6:09
to place a reentry center here by the fairgrounds. And there's a an interesting story about that as well. I'll be glad to share. Yeah, I would love to hear more about that. And before we get into that, though, I will say like, I did go over there, I actually live in the neighborhood, that T palm is located in and was blown away by the facility that they have there. They have an incredible reentry, home and transitional house there that, you know, it would put most apartment buildings to shame and what you all are doing and providing,
Unknown Speaker 6:41
you know, dignity in the in the house, that they're that they're stationed, and I think will go a really long way. And, you know, obviously we'd love to hear more about the story behind that. Sure. So we were operating out of a very small house in Madison, the Ministry had been for many years before I joined that about 700 square foot with no reentry programming. And so when we became a nonprofit in 2013, you know, I shared with the board that, you know, I wanted to have a place for people to go to when they came out. And so we started looking for sites. And there was a here on Raines Avenue in South Nashville, the Wedgewood Houston area. There was a building that was here. It was a church at one time. And they had closed back in the early 80s. And they had given their building to a fairly large church in the Green Hills area. And they were using it for benevolence. And so the Wedgewood Houston area, prior to the last few years, you know, was somewhat of kind of an impoverished area. It's changed a lot here lightly. But there was a lot of need in this community, a lot of need. And so they had a benevolent center here for 25 years. And the guy retired. And the building said empty and it fell into disrepair. And so we went to the leadership and said, you know, we want to, you know, make a proposal to you that we would like to have a reentry center there. And they said, Well, you could come and you can make a proposal, but we cannot give you the property. And but we'll listen to you. So we went in, I made a PowerPoint presentation to the leadership of that church. It lasted for two hours. They said let us step out of the office, they stepped out of the meeting for five minutes, come back in and said we're giving all the property. And so this property was just given to us at no cost. And so we went into a camp. Yeah, that is amazing. And so we don't know what Wedgewood Houston now like it used to be. Like this is an area in South Nashville. It used to be, you know, very impoverished, and a lot of programming and everything here in Westwood, Houston. But now it's become this really trendy hip, you know, so many cool coffee shops and bars and a lot more people are coming through. So people have an idea of where this is, yeah, yeah, it's we're right near the fairgrounds with a built in new soccer stadium, you know, with walking distance of that. So it's a very different neighborhood from when we came here in 2013. So we went into a capital campaign, and we renovated the entire building here at Raines Avenue. And so this is where we moved our offices to. And we started, you know, expanding programming, and at the time, we did not have any housing. So we just had a place for people to come when they came out of prison for job training, soft skills, job placement, started counseling, those kinds of services as well. But we wanted to have housing. And so when we were opening the reentry center,
Unknown Speaker 9:45
I went out and I'm not doors in this community. And I took my business card and said, you know, Hi, I'm Thomas No, we're operating a reentry center for people coming out of prison. And you know, if you have any questions you have any concerns or not
Unknown Speaker 10:00
I can understand people having concerns. I said, you know, give me a call. And so our neighbor
Unknown Speaker 10:06
had a real strange expression on his face.
Unknown Speaker 10:10
And, you know, he was not real happy with me. And he said to me, and I'll never forget this, he said,
Unknown Speaker 10:18
a person who is in prison
Unknown Speaker 10:21
that has criminal thinking can never change. And he then said that he was an expert on the criminal mind. And I said, Well, how are you an expert? So he said, Well, I watched a movie
Unknown Speaker 10:32
called the clockwork, probably A Clockwork Orange.
Unknown Speaker 10:38
He based his view of the incarcerated on that movie. And so he put up a sign that had a, an assault rifle, ar 15 picture on his house and said, I have guns not kill you. And I said, you know, this is not working out. I said, you need to sell us your house. And he did. And so we went in and level the house. And we built the men's duplex in 2017, which is right next door to the men's to the reentry center. And so we built the men's house for 16 men, and for two House shepherds coming out of incarceration.
Unknown Speaker 11:14
And so we started from 2013 becoming a nonprofit 2015, we opened the reentry center 2017, we built a men's duplex. And then you know, we always wanted to have a facility for women. And so we own property next door,
Unknown Speaker 11:33
on the corner of Valerie and Ryan's Avenue, here in South Nashville. And so we went into a capital campaign. And we built a beautiful facility a $1.8 million build, that has three floors program room, that has how shepherds and for 16 women. And we finished that at the end of 2020. And so now we have the reentry center, we have the men's duplex. And now we have the women's facility across the street. And it is something that I can you know, honestly slaves as nice as anything else in our neighborhood.
Unknown Speaker 12:11
What's nice for the most in Nashville as a whole. Right now what is the total bedspread. So we have 16 men and 16 women at one time, and now you're here, four to six months. And so we are approved by the Tennessee Department of Corrections. And so they can come to us from parole. They also come to us from jail as well parole or probation. And so they come straight to us and they enter into our program. And so as they're here, they come through. And we're we got a team that here worked with him, we're very holistic in what we do. And so they're in therapy. We help them with soft skills, we help place them at a job, they all work first shift jobs, we provide case management, help them with IDs, birth certificate, social security cards, help them get their driver's license back, we help them open bank accounts. We're involved in all those activities. And then we have evening classes, such as financial management, anger management, communication skills, all the things that they need to really help prepare them for independence. And so
Unknown Speaker 13:20
yes, with transportation, so when they first come here, we help them because we're right off the bus line, we're right by Nolan's Ville road. And so we get them a bus pass and a bus ID for 30 days. When they go through a phase program. It's four phases and phase two, they can get a car
Unknown Speaker 13:39
if they want to, as long as they have their license and insurance. So they're using the bus system initially. And then they can have their own car. But the first week, the staff is transporting them where they need to go fingerprinting, getting their Id take them in company cars, to places they need to be. And so we're navigating all of that, and really given them the tools that they need to be successful and to integrate into this community in a successful way. That's what this ministry is all about. So I'm chomping at the bit at you calm because you're blowing my mind right now. So, you know, like Silas said, I ran the brother county jail system from 2010 until I left in 2017. But I started there in the mid 90s. And he you know, my passion really became burning thing to into rehab and re entry, I should say, you know, space. And back then it was a challenge because they weren't even as great as I love my Rutherford County. There were probably one or two, you know, churches that were even involved with the facility. And, you know, we have like, I don't know, 400 churches in this community, but that were about
Unknown Speaker 15:00
That was back then. Right? Remember, I, you know, I don't want to, you know, it's not about me. And don't get me wrong. My thing was, you know, we were going to try to help these individuals we need to go. Go all in. So we know, right? I put this notion in either taking the church. And so I remember approaching churches in the community about that. They're like, you want to do what? Yeah, yeah, bring him to the church even share it with you show you what to do. How are we going to do this? We're gonna do it this, if I just tell me yes. And we're going to make this happen. And he said, long as you sound like you made up your mind. So go ahead, but no one in the community. So I will literally put him in vehicles.
Unknown Speaker 15:44
And the first time we did we chained them, which I'll tell you that story. So but guess what, I had to take him all the way to cons. And Matt is
Unknown Speaker 15:51
right. Past Maury Davis. Right. What is his testimony still, right? He was the only church in Tennessee at a time this back in? Oh, seven. I would say it was. So you know, fast forward to now. Because that was born when people heard about that in local churches that bring him in one of the best churches we have going in Rutherford is
Unknown Speaker 16:21
Dali
Unknown Speaker 16:23
isn't where larger is our biggest church. But
Unknown Speaker 16:27
the church I'm supposed to be going to detail out and going to church are a senior citizen mind.
Unknown Speaker 16:35
They have stepped up in leaps and bounds. And the thing is what what you were doing was blowing my mind. Are you telling me you guys started this? This vision this track? Like 2013 2011 2012?
Unknown Speaker 16:52
Yeah, so this vision, you know, so when I was asked to join the ministry in 2008.
Unknown Speaker 16:59
So I had five years to work with the current director. And you know, of course, they were all behind the bars. And you know, so I had five years to really think through what was going on with the ministry, and began to really feel like that, you know, that there was a vision for this, and God had a vision for where the ministry needed to go. And that if we were really going to help people that we needed to be there, the day they walked out of that prison or that jail, the cause, without help on the outside, it is virtually impossible to make it to be successful coming out of the community unless you have people that are there to embrace you and walk along with you. And so that's where that vision developed, you know, wanted to have a statewide ministry, which we are statewide, and we're in most of our state prisons in Tennessee, and a lot of our county jails as well, we're getting ready to go to Memphis expand housing there.
Unknown Speaker 17:57
But it really grew out of that and grew out of seeing people coming out of incarceration, with literally nothing. Now, Tennessee has passed a law where they are supposed to now give folks their ID when they come out. But even that's still not happening, and certainly back then they did not. And so you imagine coming out of prison. And this is what they would do. Historically, they'll send you out with no ID, a one way bus ticket on a Greyhound bus and a $30. Check that you could not cash because you had no ID and then slightly successful. Well, what we end up happening is a criminal justice system that is set up to fail. It has a criminal justice system that was set up to put people right back in prison.
Unknown Speaker 18:39
You know, because there just was nowhere to turn. Now. They've made some improvement the last few years, but it still has a long way to go.
Unknown Speaker 18:48
You know, we still have a lot of improvement to make. And so you cannot spend,
Unknown Speaker 18:54
you know, 510 20 years in prison and just turn you loose on your own and just think that you're going to be able to navigate. So much has changed. And it is so difficult with that. And that's what we're here. We're here to walk alongside folks. We're here to be with them in that journey, especially that first four to six months that is so tough coming out from incarceration. Inside, you see what I was telling you about when doing things for the right reason. And that's why I bought up the years, what they have accomplished in less than 10 years is amazing. I mean, and then go me for that church and do a presentation to donate that billion and in a market space now where they can they do they can get millions for that? Oh, yeah, it's it's worth a lot of money. And now we actually have another story I'll, I'd like to share if they got a chance. We actually, we actually own another piece of property on more Avenue here that is right behind the men's house. And there's a interesting
Unknown Speaker 19:56
story about how we acquired that property, you know, here in the witchwood Houston
Unknown Speaker 20:00
marry up. So there, you know, I mentioned I was knocking doors. And when we built a men's house,
Unknown Speaker 20:07
I went out knock doors again. And there was a lady that was living there in this house right behind the men's house that we were constructing. And she was a widow. And she was elderly. And I said, you know, you know, I'm Thomas, this is my business card. We are building a men's house for people, men coming out of prison. And I said, if you're ever you ever have any concerns, I want you to call me, she called me all the time. And, you know,
Unknown Speaker 20:34
and I get that. And so the guys once the house opened up, the guys in our house, without any prompting from me, or a staff member sort of Gillan by helping clean up a yard, right, their leaves, they mow their grass, one of the guys helped build her wheelchair ramp, but she wasn't a walker. And so, before she died in 2019, she told her family, she said, When I passed, she said, sell my property to cheap home. And the family called me and I said, our mother was your biggest critic, and she became your biggest fan. And they sold us that property at half market value.
Unknown Speaker 21:13
And so now we have an additional lot here in this community to build another duplex. And that's kind of the next plan down the road. And all of that it's just because our residents started understanding and you know what community is and they wanted to give back. And, and I've got guys right now that came in yesterday. And I've got a gentleman that's next door to the men's house, elderly, they've been out, cleaning up his yard, cleaning out his gutters, helping him cut wood for his fireplace, and they're not asked to do it. They're just doing it. And, and they're being a positive member of our community and giving back. And then it's turning into more blessings for other folks down the road. So it's just a neat story. And I just, I just,
Unknown Speaker 21:59
you know, kind of goosebumps when I tell that story. How have you seen the community change? Like, because at first he talked about how people were kind of skeptical of you sure, as as what would you use? And it's kind of become more gentrified? Right, have you seen the community shift? Its opinion? Or how does that change? Yeah, so when we first opened up the men's house, we send out an invitation for people, you know, to come to our grand opening. And so on the, you know, next door app that they have, you know, there was a lot of concern about T POM. And, you know, because there have been a lot of changes going on in 2017. With that, as well. And so, you know, we had people from the community that came to the grand opening of the men's house that came to the grand opening of the women's house, we now have people in our community, that are volunteering here that are donating to the ministry. And we just have, and we work really hard, we have a really good relationship in this community. We had a, we had a lady, and I'll share this, that
Unknown Speaker 23:14
she has another lady that's not didn't live far from us. And, you know, as we were, you know, with all the men's house and the guys coming back, and they would walk down more avenue to catch the bus. And so, you know, she called me What is another lady? She called me one day, and she said, Mr. Snow, she said, You know, I know that.
Unknown Speaker 23:35
You know, you got these men in your transitional house, and they come out of prison. And she said, like, come down my street, go into the bus. And she said, I want you to know that I have a gun, and I sleep with it at night. And
Unknown Speaker 23:49
I get that. And I said, But you know, that's, you know, our guys are not like that. And so it was about three weeks later, she came on a Sunday night, we have a Sunday night worship service, and I was actually sticking that night. And she actually shows up at church service. And at the end of the service, she says, I've got something I want to say. And she stood up and I thought, man, duck, you know, I don't know what she wants to say here. And she said, my mother was out in the yard. And her mother was in her 90s. And she said, My mother fail. And she said, I started screaming and she said your guys just came running down to my house to help her and help her get in the house and said she was they were so kind and she said I came here to not just thank y'all, and I want to make a donation to the ministry. And so we're just seeing a community that's responding to us. That doesn't seem threatened by T POM that's partnering with us. That's, you know, part of that and we just worked really hard to build that relationship. And it's it's really neat seeing that. Yeah, that was a great question. Awesome.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
So what is the screening process? Because just hearing your stories, I mean, shirt gowns like these, these men and women are very impressive. Yes, so what we do is, so we course we have applications that we have in the prisons, we have like a kiosk, that's that the next county jail that we have now. So they fill out an application for T palm, we require that they submit a copy of their disciplinaries in prison, I also require that they submit a list of any programs that they have completed now. And so we, the team looks at that. And they review that to see if they're a candidate for T POM. Now, if they're in prison, and they are getting all kinds of write ups, and they've got recent, you know, dirty urine screens, and they've attacked an officer and they're not going to, we're not going to put them in the palm. We are looking for people. Yeah, they may have problems. And they may have done some things and even might be a violent charge. But they're showing evidence that they're trying to do something different with their life. That's the ones we're looking for.
Unknown Speaker 26:14
And we take people of every charge, except the only ones we can accept people on the sex offender registry because we're within 1000 feet of a school, Paul Hamilton. So we cannot.
Unknown Speaker 26:23
But you know, so we go through all of that. And then we do a phone interview with them. And we really address why do you want to come to T palm? You know, what do you want to work on? How do you want to address yourself. So if they're just looking for a bed, this is not the place to come? Because this is a program. We're here to help people. And there's a lot of folks that are trying to make change in their life.
Unknown Speaker 26:45
And that's the that's really the niche. That's the group that were really tailored toward those that are showing, by their recent
Unknown Speaker 26:55
example in prison or jail, what they're doing, are they making positive changes we don't care about if they got brought up two years ago, when they first went to prison. But, you know, what are they doing now? Are they open to change? Are they open to considering a new way? That's who we're looking for? And so, you know, we're just not taking just anybody. And that's why I think that we have folks that when they come here and come to our program, many of them are wanting to give back.
Unknown Speaker 27:24
The House opened in 2014 15. No, the the reentry center opened in 2015. The men's house was built, new facility opened in 2017. And the women's house opened at the end of 2020.
Unknown Speaker 27:40
So about 100 people have gone through this through T POM. You know, you know how many? Maybe Maybe since you started or maybe even if you know the number since the beginning? Yeah, it's been, since we've opened the house, we've had, you know, over 200 that have gone through the program. We have, we are tracking the folks that graduate our program. And in Tennessee, the recidivism rate in three years is 46% 46% of that go back to prison in three years. And right now.
Unknown Speaker 28:14
Of those that graduate our program, only 7% end up back in prison. And so we have a very high success rate of those that complete the program. I think we had close to
Unknown Speaker 28:26
85 that went through this past year or houses stayed mostly full
Unknown Speaker 28:33
with people coming in the program. And so we've got, you know, close to 30 people in the house right now men and women.
Unknown Speaker 28:40
That's amazing.
Unknown Speaker 28:42
So you said you're tracking them? So are you doing nothing alumni. We are. And also looking back at, we're also looking at the ttoc. You know, offender lookup, there's a website, you go on and look that up as well.
Unknown Speaker 29:00
And doing that also. And then we're staying in touch with our residents that when they leave the programs, they can still come back here for re services had one that graduated last year that was here yesterday, needing some help. And so, you know, when they leave here and graduate, that's not the end of the program, they still can come back for whatever they need when they job help counseling, case management, whatever that is. But yeah, we're tracking them and following them. And we're having a really good success rate. For those that are in our program that we are, you know, part of our program is that we are strict when it comes to relapse, because we know that almost all of our residents have had,
Unknown Speaker 29:44
you know, issues with addiction in their past. And when you have people in your house that are actively using it jeopardizes everybody's recovery. And so sobriety is a very big deal here. And we have a lot of programs for that to help them to stay on track with
Unknown Speaker 30:00
Have a meetings on Monday night. We have a recovery class on Thursday night. deal with that in therapy. But that's obviously a very critical issue.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai